CREDITS:

• We would like to thank Dave_UFO for arranging this meeting with Kevin Randle
• We would like to thank Kevin Randle for attending this meeting and answering the questions put to him
• We would like to thank all the people involved in asking questions
• We would like to thank everyone who attended this meeting
• This meeting was moderated by Crow and Raine

Session Start: Sat Apr 11 22:58:38 1998*** Now talking in #ufo

<grumps> Hi Kevin. Chris Rutkowski here. I owe you a drink. :)

<KRandle> Hi Chris. I think you do, but I don't know how to collect it.

*** K9 sets mode: +m

<Raine> Hello everyone and welcome. I would first like to welcome Kevin to IRC and thank him for joining us on channel #ufo. Please remember if you have any questions for Kevin /msg crow or me with them and NOT Kevin, /join #ufo2 for unmoderated chat. Here is a brief introduction:

<Raine> Kevin D. Randle is a professional writer who, for more than twenty years, has been studying the UFO phenomenon. Training by the Army as a helicopter pilot, and by the Air Force as an intelligence officer, provides Randle with a unique insight into the operations of the military, their investigations of UFOs, and into a phenomenon that has puzzled people since the Kenneth Arnold UFO sighting in June 1947.

<Raine> During his investigations, Randle has travelled the United States to interview hundreds of witnesses who were involved in everything from the famous Roswell, New Mexico UFO crash of 1947, to the repeated radar sightings of UFOs over Washington, D.C. in 1952, to the latest of the abduction cases. Randle was among the first journalists to have the opportunity to review the files of the Air Force's UFO study, Project Blue Book when they were declassified in 1976. As a writer, Randle has produced more than 80 books on a variety of topics. Is there anything you would like to add Kevin or are you ready for the first question?

<Raine> I give you Kevin Randle ....

<KRandle> Just that I have been working to complete my dissertation for a doctorate in psychology and have been working to complete a couple of new books.

<KRandle> KR

<Dave_UFO> Within the last few years the 509th had their 50th anniversary. A representative of yours attended to see if any of the group (now getting on in years) would come forward with any information. At that time no one did. Has this changed since then?

<KRandle> Everyone who was on Col. Blanchard's staff in 1947 has suggested that a UFO was responsible for the debris. We must remember that the 509th existed long past that event. But yes, there are others suggesting something unusual. KR

<Nesssus> Hi and welcome to #ufo Kevin. I've spoken to Stanton on a number of occasions and he's suggested that a number of the "stories" of crashes are just that, stories, because Leonard H Stringfield never properly investigated these cases, would you agree?

<KRandle> Len Stringfield was collecting data and then providing it to the rest of us. His service was extremely important.

<KRandle> But, knowing that he was not investigating each sighting, we have to do that.

<KRandle> I believe that the vast majority of UFO crash stories are just that. Stories. We have to check each one carefully. KR

<Crow> Kevin, I have heard so many variations as to the shape of the Roswell craft found at the second crash site. Some seem to be saying it was a saucer shape others say it was like a triangular (stealth) type craft, what conclusions have you come to if any on the crafts shape?

<KRandle> The best information is that the craft was triangular shaped. This is based on the credible eyewitness testimony. KR

<EtBunny> "It is said that the Roswell story has changed over the years that the "alien" part of the story did not begin until the 70s. So how do we know the Roswell story is true?

<KRandle> Actually, we have mentions of alien bodies long before 1970. I believe the Roswell story to be true based on the eyewitness

<KRandle> testimony of very credible people such as Major Edwin Easley, the 509th Provost Marshal in 1947. KR

<Nesssus> Kevin, out of all the crashes that you have investigated, which would you say is the most comparable to Roswell?

<KRandle> Oh, a hard one.

<KRandle> I would say that the best evidence would be for the 1962 Las Vegas, Nevada crash.

<KRandle> I find Kingman, Arizona in 1953 to be intriguing, but it doesn't have the number of witnesses as the other two. KR

<Dave_UFO> Out of all the Roswell witnesses you have interviewed who strikes you as the most important and why?

<KRandle> I believe that Edwin Easley is very important because of who he was in 1947. He told me that the craft was of extraterrestrial origin.

<KRandle> I find Patrick Saunders, the adjutant, who wrote on the flyleaf to one of my books that it was the truth, to be very important. He had nothing to gain and I learned of his notes after his death. No spotlight motivation.

<KRandle> I find Frank Kaufmann to be credible because, to this point no one has demonstrated that he has lied about anything.

<KRandle> There are those who don't like his testimony because of what it does to their personal beliefs and agendas, but the fact is, he hasn't been caught lying.

<KRandle> There are a number of other lesser players who tell interesting stories. KR

<Snakker> Kevin, where does the Roswell investigation go from here?

<KRandle> I think we have about mined that field. We might find additional witnesses, but who is going to care?

<KRandle> The skeptics are going to say they're lying. The debunkers are going to ignore them. And the UFO

<KRandle> researchers are going to try to pick apart the story if it doesn't conform to their beliefs. We're going to have to look for physical evidence and documentation. KR

<Darren> Hi Kevin. In connection with your research into Roswell, do you think aircraft such as NASA's Hyper X is using technology as in shape and aerodynamics which has been directly taken from the crashed craft?

<KRandle> At this late date it's hard to imagine that. We have to remember that humans are very bright. Sometimes we don't need help to figure something out. KR

<Nesssus> Kevin, do you feel that if some other crash cases where investigated as thoroughly as Roswell we would have some real evidence or more answers?

<KRandle> That's a very distinct possibility. Or maybe just some other cases. The Washington Nationals,

<KRandle> the radar cases from 1952 might provide some answers.

<KRandle> And the Bentwaters case from the UK looks very good as long as Larry Warren's nonsense is left out of it. KR

<Snakker> Do you think that Richard Tungate has any more substantial Roswell information to reveal? If so, what is holding him back?

<KRandle> I think a number of witnesses could provide additional information if the right questions were asked and the right people asked them. KR

<Crow> Hi again kevin, have you ever interviewed James Bond Johnson, the photographer who took the famous picture of Jessie Marcell in General Ramey's office with the weather balloon wreakage? As he will be a guest here on may 2nd and said he wanted to clear up some of the rumours before its too late for him to be able to do so. How much do you think he really knows?

<KRandle> I was the first to interview him. His story, as related to me on audio tape, has substantially changed since he first told it.

<KRandle> He'll tell you that I misquoted him, I forced my opinions on him, and that I'm wrong.

<KRandle> Unfortunately for him, I have it all on tape. He has radically altered his story from those tapes. He

<KRandle> denies he said things that you can clearly him him say. However, he was in Ramey's office, he did take the photographs

<KRandle> of Ramey and Dubois, and he now claims he took the pictures of Marcel. Originally he said he took two pictures, then four and now six. KR

<Benat2> Hey Kev thanks for coming, my question is back in March and April of '96 Billy Dolymere and I exchanged a few email messages, in one of them he defended saying you didnt say something, I don't remmeber what, but today I visited UFOMIND and it says he criticizes your work, what happened here?

<KRandle> I have never met the man and as far as I know, never talked to him. He is a friend and supporter of Don Schmitt. He accepts everything that Schmitt said as true. KR

<stu7> Kevin...I'd like to ask the obvious... have you had any opposition from the Army, AirForce or other services, regarding your investigations ? Any help from them ?

<KRandle> No opposition. In fact, while I was being investigated for my top secret clearance

<KRandle> the man doing the work included a number of the magazine articles I had published

<KRandle> criticising the Air Force. I still got the clearance. KR

<Dave_UFO> Is there currently any thought on where the Roswell wreckage might now be?

<KRandle> I know that it, or some of it went, to Wright Field. I don't know if it is still there or moved. Everything beyond that is speculation. KR

<Tinncup> kevin have you ever been told that military will tell the people the truth one day?

<KRandle> Simple answer is NO. KR

<TopGun__> Have you done research on the MJ-12 documents and do you think they are authentic?

<KRandle> I have done a great deal of work on MJ-12. Although I originally believed them to be authentic

<KRandle> I think the evidence is that they are faked. There is no provenance for them, the typeface didn't exist until

<KRandle> years after the documents were supposedly written. There are many such problems. KR

<Philos> Kevin What about Pappy Henderson's widow.... I assume you find her credible also ?

<KRandle> Yes. She is a very nice lady who is telling the truth as she knows it. Unfortunately she didn't see anything first hand. She is repeating what her husband told her.

<KRandle> More importantly, we have no reason to doubt what he said either. KR

<Nesssus> Kevin would you rather be known as a UFO researcher or as a succesful Sci-Fi writer?

<KRandle> Well, the term is actually science fiction or SF. I have done quite a bit of action fiction, techno-thrillers and the like.

<KRandle> I think I would like to be known as a successful writer and a UFO researcher, a psychologist, helicopter pilot, former military officer, and a lot of other things that I have done.

<KRandle> KR

<Snakker> Is anyone in the U.S. Congress anywhere close to opening hearings/investigations into the UFO and hopefully the Roswell incident, also?

<KRandle> I don't think we're very close to any sort of Congressional hearings at the moment. The Air

<KRandle> Force, with their silly final reports, have convinced many that Roswell was nothing more than a balloon. KR

<I-Knight> Kevin, at last week's meeting Nick Redfern mentioned a crash in Britain in 1955 where the bodies of some "small men" were recovered. Do you know anything about this?

<KRandle> I did a quick search of my database on crashes and didn't find anything. Short answer: NO. KR

<RavNmaD> Kevin, have you looked into the Varginha incident? and if so, what conclusions have you drawn?

<KRandle> I've just looked at the beginnings of it. To me, it seems to slide toward the poor end of the

<KRandle> scale, but I would like to see more, corroborated data before I write it off completely. KR

<Snakker> How would you have improved the GAO's investigation into the disposition of Roswell records?

<KRandle> By having them search from the other end as well. They couldn't find the outgoing messages.

<KRandle> Let's look for those who would have been receiving them such as 8th AF HQ and SAC.

<KRandle> Let's talk to a few people. I had heard

<KRandle> that the FBI office in Albuquerque had some records so I turned the information over to the GAO

<KRandle> hoping they would do something, but they didn't. I would have looked a little harder. KR

<Crow> Who do you think is the least credible of the Roswell witnesses and why?

<KRandle> Jim Ragsdale for changing his story. Gerald Anderson for inventing his and getting caught in his lies. Glenn Dennis for changing the name of the nurse once we had proved she didn't exist. KR

<Snakker> Isn't Frank Kaufmann a genuine government whistleblower with bona fides? If this is true, why don't Time, Newsweek, NBC, CBS, New York Times, etc., jump on the Roswell incident story? Is it because it is about UFOs?

<KRandle> Well, each of those agencies has done UFO stuff. CBS's 48 Hours interviewed him a couple of

<KRandle> years ago. They didn't ridicule his story. However, the problem is that we are dealing with

<KRandle> UFOs. No journalist who has spent 20 years building credibility is going to want to lose it in five minutes

<KRandle> because of UFOs. KR

<Dave_UFO> We read about all sorts of things on the net. Some believable. Some not. What is your current relation & feeling's on Don Schmitt?

<KRandle> I have no relation with Don Schmitt. He lied about his education. He lied about his employment.

<KRandle> He lied about other UFO researchers attempting to discredit them. And he continues to lie today.

<KRandle> Blunt but true. KR

<Philos> Kevin, You mentioned the '52 Wash. D.C. events .. What can we learn from that today ? There was no crash - just radar & photos ??

<KRandle> Radar, photos, pilot intercepts, ground visual sightings, radar sightings, all sorts of data that could be gathered. And we can see the US government duplicity in their response to the case. KR

<Nesssus> Kevin, Do you think that the Bentwaters/Rendlesham forest affair is the UK equivalent of Roswell?

<KRandle> No, but only because there wasn't a crash. There is some interesting evidence from that case. It's one that needs to be fully explored

<KRandle>It has a place of its own in UFO history. KR

<stu7> Kevin I think Roswell was the first case most ufologists heard of... are there any more recent cases, in the last year or so, where the chance of documenting still exists ?

<KRandle> There is the case in Arizona that might provide some of that. I don't mean to be so American-centric, if that's a word, but the stuff I hear is usually from American sources. KR

<etech> I have heard that Pres. Carter asked for UFO info, and was denied, I find that hard to believe. Have you heard anythng like that?

<KRandle> Carter was going to ask for the information. I can't conceive of a situation where the information

<KRandle> could be denied to the President. He has the power to get rid of anyone and find someone who will talk.

<KRandle> So no, I don't think he was refused. KR

<Dave_UFO> Kevin have you ever been intimidated or threatened with regards to the investigations you undertake? Do you know of anyone who has been forced by whatever means not to talk to you?

<KRandle> I have never been threatened. A few people I know suggest they have been told not to talk, but I can't document that. KR

<Snakker> How can we get a national forum to demonstrate to the American public and the establishment elites that the Air Force response to Roswell incident facts was simply ludicrous?

<KRandle> I think the AF hurt itself with the "flying dummies" story. I think we can find all the proof we want and the attitude is going

<KRandle> to be, this happened before I was born. Why should I care?

<KRandle> That might be our problem. We're now dealing with history.KR

<Nesssus> What got you interested in UFO's in the first place? and did you drift into research or "deliberately" took it up?

<KRandle> I always blame my mother.

<KRandle> She had an interest in science fiction and it isn't a far step into the realm of the UFO.

<KRandle> I took up UFO research because I wanted to learn the truth for myself. KR

<Philos> Kevin, Do you detect any effort to subvert the Roswell research, such as false wittnesses or such? I mean intentional subversion.

*** KRandle has quit IRC (Read error to KRandle[202-154-186.ipt.aol.com]: Connection reset by peer)

<Nesssus> oh dear

<TopGun__> uups...

<Raine> im sure he will be back :)

<Crow> he was doing great so far too

<Crow> #ufo2 open for unmoderated disscussion

<Crow> we will give him a few mins to redial he may well be back any sec

*** KRandle (Crows_www@203-55-85.ipt.aol.com) has joined #ufo

*** Raine sets mode: +o KRandle

<Crow> welcome back Kevin

<Raine> welcome back Kevin :)

<KRandle> Hey folks. I was AOLed. That means they logged me off.

<Benat2> re kev

<Philos> Kevin, Do you detect any effort to subvert the Roswell research, such as false wittnesses or such? I mean intentional subversion.

<KRandle> Ah, that was the question. No. I see people jumping on the bandwagon for the spotlight

<KRandle> or to make some money. The government attempts are their silly final reports. I mean, they did a final report and then did a second final report. KR

<buck7> Welcome Kevin. I wonder if you have any further information regarding the Shag Harbor incident.

<KRandle> Chris Styles and Don Ledger have been doing a wonderful job with that. When someone asked earlier about good UFO crash cases, I should have put that at the top of the list.

<KRandle> I know that they are continuing their work and have found some good documentation. KR

<Snakker> What do you think Sheridan Cavitt's motivation is for not telling the truth about his experiences with Jesse Marcel in the Roswell incident?

<KRandle> His government oath to keep the secret.

<KRandle> I think that we have a lot of people who are honorable and who were told not to talk. They just don't because they said they wouldn't. KR

<stu7> Kevin ...whats the best piece of physical (if any) evidence from Roswell, or any case, youve seen ?

<KRandle> That's a tough one.

<KRandle> I think that some of the photo cases, when couple to other evidence makes a persuasive case. McMinnville, Oregon in 1950, for example. KR

<Dave_UFO> What role do you feel NASA plays in all of this? On the one hand they appear to be saying "yes" life does exist elsewhere possibly i.e. the Mars meteorite and lets not forget their willingness to

<Raine> rephotograph Cydonia, 'the face on Mars.

<KRandle> I think NASA is trying to avoid the problems the AF faces with Project Blue Book.

<KRandle> I think that NASA is working hard to keep their budget intact. And they do respond to public pressure as you noted.

<KRandle> As for a role, I think the exploration of space will answer our questions if we don't get them answered down here. KR

<pathfindr> have you ever spoken with any astronauts in regards to the rumors of ufo sightings?

<KRandle> No. I heard the same stories and seen them, in public forums acknowledge some of it.

<KRandle> KR

<Snakker> Kevin, you were a helicopter pilot. Do you think that the so-called (silent) black helicopters are advanced military, or some alien thing, or a combination of both?

<KRandle> Nope. KR

<Nesssus> Kevin do you believe that alien technology/ufo's are kept at Area51?

<KRandle> Nope.

<KRandle> That is the simple answer. I think the next level of military technology is being developed there

<KRandle> which is a good reason for the secrecy. We don't want our competitors in the world to know everything we're doing. KR

<Dave_UFO> Black Budgets. We know the U.S. government has a black budget. Has a black budget list ever been released or obtained?

<KRandle> Some of the really old stuff has been learned. The Manhattan Project, for example.

<KRandle> The problem is that they are black budgets... some what 30-40 Billion dollars a year. You can

<KRandle> cause a lot of trouble with that kind of money. KR

<Snakker> What is the best strategy to force the smoking gun UFO evidence out of our government/military

<KRandle> Be scientific in our approach to the questions. Let go of the cases where the evidence is against us. Mantell, for example,

<KRandle> was killed chasing a balloon. The evidence for that is overwhelming. Let's stop suggesting that a death ray got him. That harms us. KR

<buck7> Kevin, what is your take on the Mexico City video? Having just seen it myself for the first time along with some witness testimony, it looked compellingly real, if not a very excellent technical hoax.

<KRandle> One of the segments I saw, with a flight of helicopters looked faked to me. You have an

<KRandle> unknown object flash in front of your craft and there is no reaction, by any of the pilots. That bothered me.

<KRandle> Someone should have reacted, unless the object was added to the video later. KR

<pathfindr> Some "abductees" report a mission they are to perform at some future time. Is this a common trait or perception?

KRandle> Many abductees have made mention of that. Some of the contactees said the same thing. KR

<Dave_UFO> I work with a lot of people who are only too willing to point out to me newspaper & magazine articles etc. However I know some still smile unbelievingly. How have you approached people with your beliefs?

<KRandle> I try to make sure that they understand that the physical evidence, in every form, that is demanded by

<KRandle> science already exists. When Carl Sagan demand, "Where is the evidence?" My question to him would be

<KRandle> tell me what you want and I'll tell you where it is.KR

<Philos> Kevin, would you care to venture an opinion as to the nature of the visitors? Ets ? Other-dimensional beings? Spirits? Time-travellers?

<KRandle> I believe that some UFO sightings represent extraterrestrial visitation. KR

<Crow> Kevin how did you react when you heard the announcment of the Roswell crash dummies?

<KRandle> LOL. Great deals of laughter. Hell, it wasn't even in the right time frame. KR

<I-Knight> Kevin, do you believe any part of what Bob Lazar says about his work at Area 51? Stanton Friedman says he is a fraud but Bob Oeshler says he is genuine!

<KRandle> Boy, caught me in a bad one here. I have to side with Stan on this one. I talked to a man who worked with Lazar at Los Alamos. Said he was a technician and not a scientist. KR

<buck7> Kevin, I was referring to the saucer shaped craft which flew behind an apartment complex and then emerged.

<KRandle> Back to Mexico.

<KRandle> I guess I would have to take a long look at the Mexico. I was merely suggesting that some of the video needs to be reveiwed carefully. KR

<Snakker> Do you know of any underground facility research besides that of Richard Sauder? We hear a lot of rumor about extensive underground facilities. Have you personally been in any (extensive) underground facilities in your military career?

<KRandle> I was in a missile silo once. I was in Carlsbad Caverns twice. Yes, there are underground

[End transcript]