- We would like to
for arranging this meeting with
- We would like to
thank Kevin Randle for attending this
meeting and answering the questions put to him
- We would like to thank
all the people involved in asking questions
- We would like to thank
everyone who attended this meeting
- This meeting was
moderated by Crow and Raine
This is a cleaned up log
United Kingdom UFO Network Saturday 11th April 1998 IRC meeting
on #UFO with guest Kevin Randle. Kevin kindly gave up a
couple of hours of his spare time to answer some questions for the
regular members of the channel. Below you will find a list of
questions that Kevin was asked along with his replies. The name in
between the <>'s e.g.<Nesssus>
is the nick-name of the IRC user asking the question and where you see
<KRandle> is of course the start of Kevin's reply.
Session Start: Sat Apr 11 22:58:38 1998***
Now talking in #ufo
<grumps> Hi Kevin. Chris Rutkowski
here. I owe you a drink. :)
Hi Chris. I think you do, but I don't know how to collect it.
*** K9 sets mode: +m
<Raine> Hello everyone and welcome. I would
first like to welcome Kevin to IRC and thank him for joining us on
channel #ufo. Please remember if you have any questions for Kevin /msg
crow or me with them and NOT Kevin, /join #ufo2 for unmoderated chat.
Here is a brief introduction:
<Raine> Kevin D. Randle is a professional
writer who, for more than twenty years, has been studying the UFO
phenomenon. Training by the Army as a helicopter pilot, and by the Air
Force as an intelligence officer, provides Randle with a unique insight
into the operations of the military, their investigations of UFOs, and
into a phenomenon that has puzzled people since the Kenneth Arnold UFO
sighting in June 1947.
<Raine> During his investigations, Randle has
travelled the United States to interview hundreds of witnesses who were
involved in everything from the famous Roswell, New Mexico UFO crash of
1947, to the repeated radar sightings of UFOs over Washington, D.C. in
1952, to the latest of the abduction cases. Randle was among the first
journalists to have the opportunity to review the files of the Air
Force's UFO study, Project Blue Book when they were declassified in
1976. As a writer, Randle has produced more than 80 books on a variety
of topics. Is there anything you would like to add Kevin or are you
ready for the first question?
<Raine> I give you Kevin Randle ....
Just that I have been working to complete my dissertation for a
doctorate in psychology and have been working to complete a couple of
<Dave_UFO> Within the last few years the
509th had their 50th anniversary. A representative of yours attended to
see if any of the group (now getting on in years) would come forward
with any information. At that time no one did. Has this changed since
Everyone who was on Col. Blanchard's staff in 1947 has suggested that a
UFO was responsible for the debris. We must remember that the 509th
existed long past that event. But yes, there are others suggesting
something unusual. KR
<Nesssus> Hi and welcome to #ufo Kevin. I've
spoken to Stanton on a number of occasions and he's suggested that a
number of the "stories" of crashes are just that, stories, because
Leonard H Stringfield never properly investigated these cases, would you
Len Stringfield was collecting data and then providing it to the rest of
us. His service was extremely important.
But, knowing that he was not investigating each sighting, we have to do
I believe that the vast majority of UFO crash stories are just that.
Stories. We have to check each one carefully. KR
<Crow> Kevin, I have heard so many variations
as to the shape of the Roswell craft found at the second crash site.
Some seem to be saying it was a saucer shape others say it was like a
triangular (stealth) type craft, what conclusions have you come to if
any on the crafts shape?
The best information is that the craft was triangular shaped. This is
based on the credible eyewitness testimony. KR
<EtBunny> "It is said that the Roswell story
has changed over the years that the "alien" part of the story did not
begin until the 70s. So how do we know the Roswell story is true?
Actually, we have mentions of alien bodies long before 1970. I believe
the Roswell story to be true based on the eyewitness
testimony of very credible people such as Major Edwin Easley, the 509th
Provost Marshal in 1947. KR
<Nesssus> Kevin, out of all the crashes that
you have investigated, which would you say is the most comparable to
Oh, a hard one.
I would say that the best evidence would be for the 1962 Las Vegas,
I find Kingman, Arizona in 1953 to be intriguing, but it doesn't have
the number of witnesses as the other two. KR
<Dave_UFO> Out of all the Roswell witnesses
you have interviewed who strikes you as the most important and why?
I believe that Edwin Easley is very important because of who he was in
1947. He told me that the craft was of extraterrestrial origin.
I find Patrick Saunders, the adjutant, who wrote on the flyleaf to one
of my books that it was the truth, to be very important. He had nothing
to gain and I learned of his notes after his death. No spotlight
I find Frank Kaufmann to be credible because, to this point no one has
demonstrated that he has lied about anything.
There are those who don't like his testimony because of what it does to
their personal beliefs and agendas, but the fact is, he hasn't been
There are a number of other lesser players who tell interesting stories.
<Snakker> Kevin, where does the Roswell
investigation go from here?
I think we have about mined that field. We might find additional
witnesses, but who is going to care?
The skeptics are going to say they're lying. The debunkers are going to
ignore them. And the UFO
researchers are going to try to pick apart the story if it doesn't conform
to their beliefs. We're going to have to look for physical evidence and
<Darren> Hi Kevin. In connection with your
research into Roswell, do you think aircraft such as NASA's Hyper X is
using technology as in shape and aerodynamics which has been directly
taken from the crashed craft?
At this late date it's hard to imagine that. We have to remember that
humans are very bright. Sometimes we don't need help to figure something
<Nesssus> Kevin, do you feel that if some
other crash cases where investigated as thoroughly as Roswell we would
have some real evidence or more answers?
That's a very distinct possibility. Or maybe just some other cases. The
the radar cases from 1952 might provide some answers.
And the Bentwaters case from the UK looks very good as long as Larry
Warren's nonsense is left out of it. KR
<Snakker> Do you think that Richard Tungate
has any more substantial Roswell information to reveal? If so, what is
holding him back?
I think a number of witnesses could provide additional information if
the right questions were asked and the right people asked them. KR
<Crow> Hi again kevin, have you ever
interviewed James Bond Johnson, the photographer who took the famous
picture of Jessie Marcell in General Ramey's office with the weather
balloon wreakage? As he will be a guest here on may 2nd and said he
wanted to clear up some of the rumours before its too late for him to be
able to do so. How much do you think he really knows?
I was the first to interview him. His story, as related to me on audio
tape, has substantially changed since he first told it.
He'll tell you that I misquoted him, I forced my opinions on him, and
that I'm wrong.
Unfortunately for him, I have it all on tape. He has radically altered his
story from those tapes. He
denies he said things that you can clearly him him say. However, he was
in Ramey's office, he did take the photographs
of Ramey and Dubois, and he now claims he took the pictures of Marcel.
Originally he said he took two pictures, then four and now six. KR
<Benat2> Hey Kev thanks for coming, my
question is back in March and April of '96 Billy Dolymere and I
exchanged a few email messages, in one of them he defended saying you
didnt say something, I don't remmeber what, but today I visited UFOMIND
and it says he criticizes your work, what happened here?
I have never met the man and as far as I know, never talked to him. He
is a friend and supporter of Don Schmitt. He accepts everything that
Schmitt said as true. KR
<stu7> Kevin...I'd like to ask the obvious...
have you had any opposition from the Army, AirForce or other services,
regarding your investigations ? Any help from them ?
No opposition. In fact, while I was being investigated for my top secret
the man doing the work included a number of the magazine articles I had
criticising the Air Force. I still got the clearance. KR
<Dave_UFO> Is there currently any thought on
where the Roswell wreckage might now be?
I know that it, or some of it went, to Wright Field. I don't know if it
is still there or moved. Everything beyond that is speculation. KR
<Tinncup> kevin have you ever been told that
military will tell the people the truth one day?
Simple answer is NO. KR
<TopGun__> Have you done research on the
MJ-12 documents and do you think they are authentic?
I have done a great deal of work on MJ-12. Although I originally
believed them to be authentic
I think the evidence is that they are faked. There is no provenance for
them, the typeface didn't exist until
years after the documents were supposedly written. There are many such
<Philos> Kevin What about Pappy Henderson's
widow.... I assume you find her credible also ?
Yes. She is a very nice lady who is telling the truth as she knows it.
Unfortunately she didn't see anything first hand. She is repeating what
her husband told her.
More importantly, we have no reason to doubt what he said either. KR
<Nesssus> Kevin would you rather be known as
a UFO researcher or as a succesful Sci-Fi writer?
Well, the term is actually science fiction or SF. I have done quite a
bit of action fiction, techno-thrillers and the like.
I think I would like to be known as a successful writer and a UFO
researcher, a psychologist, helicopter pilot, former military officer,
and a lot of other things that I have done.
<Snakker> Is anyone in the U.S. Congress
anywhere close to opening hearings/investigations into the UFO and
hopefully the Roswell incident, also?
I don't think we're very close to any sort of Congressional hearings at
the moment. The Air
Force, with their silly final reports, have convinced many that Roswell
was nothing more than a balloon. KR
<I-Knight> Kevin, at last week's meeting Nick Redfern mentioned a crash in Britain in 1955 where the bodies of some
"small men" were recovered. Do you know anything about this?
I did a quick search of my database on crashes and didn't find anything.
Short answer: NO. KR
<RavNmaD> Kevin, have you looked into the
Varginha incident? and if so, what conclusions have you drawn?
I've just looked at the beginnings of it. To me, it seems to slide
toward the poor end of the
scale, but I would like to see more, corroborated data before I write it
off completely. KR
<Snakker> How would you have improved the
GAO's investigation into the disposition of Roswell records?
By having them search from the other end as well. They couldn't find the
Let's look for those who would have been receiving them such as 8th AF
HQ and SAC.
Let's talk to a few people. I had heard
that the FBI office in Albuquerque had some records so I turned the
information over to the GAO
<KRandle> hoping they would do something, but they didn't. I
would have looked a little harder. KR
<Crow> Who do you think is the least credible
of the Roswell witnesses and why?
Jim Ragsdale for changing his story. Gerald Anderson for inventing his
and getting caught in his lies. Glenn Dennis for changing the name of
the nurse once we had proved she didn't exist. KR
<Snakker> Isn't Frank Kaufmann a genuine
government whistleblower with bona fides? If this is true, why don't
Time, Newsweek, NBC, CBS, New York Times, etc., jump on the Roswell
incident story? Is it because it is about UFOs?
Well, each of those agencies has done UFO stuff. CBS's 48 Hours
interviewed him a couple of
years ago. They didn't ridicule his story. However, the problem is that
we are dealing with
UFOs. No journalist who has spent 20 years building credibility is going
to want to lose it in five minutes
because of UFOs. KR
<Dave_UFO> We read about all sorts of things
on the net. Some believable. Some not. What is your current relation &
feeling's on Don Schmitt?
I have no relation with Don Schmitt. He lied about his
education. He lied about his employment.
He lied about other UFO researchers attempting to discredit them. And he
continues to lie today.
Blunt but true. KR
<Philos> Kevin, You mentioned the '52 Wash.
D.C. events .. What can we learn from that today ? There was no crash -
just radar & photos ??
Radar, photos, pilot intercepts, ground visual sightings, radar
sightings, all sorts of data that could be gathered. And we can see the
US government duplicity in their response to the case. KR
<Nesssus> Kevin, Do you think that the
Bentwaters/Rendlesham forest affair is the UK equivalent of Roswell?
No, but only because there wasn't a crash. There is some interesting
evidence from that case. It's one that needs to be fully explored
has a place of its own in UFO history. KR
<stu7> Kevin I think Roswell was the first
case most ufologists heard of... are there any more recent cases, in the
last year or so, where the chance of documenting still exists ?
There is the case in Arizona that might provide some of that. I don't
mean to be so American-centric, if that's a word, but the stuff I hear
is usually from American sources. KR
<etech> I have heard that Pres. Carter asked
for UFO info, and was denied, I find that hard to believe. Have you
heard anythng like that?
Carter was going to ask for the information. I can't conceive of a
situation where the information
could be denied to the President. He has the power to get rid of anyone
and find someone who will talk.
So no, I don't think he was refused. KR
<Dave_UFO> Kevin have you ever been
intimidated or threatened with regards to the investigations you
undertake? Do you know of anyone who has been forced by whatever means
not to talk to you?
I have never been threatened. A few people I know suggest they have been
told not to talk, but I can't document that. KR
<Snakker> How can we get a national forum to
demonstrate to the American public and the establishment elites that the
Air Force response to Roswell incident facts was simply ludicrous?
I think the AF hurt itself with the "flying dummies" story. I think we
can find all the proof we want and the attitude is going
to be, this happened before I was born. Why should I care?
That might be our problem. We're now dealing with history.KR
<Nesssus> What got you interested in UFO's in
the first place? and did you drift into research or "deliberately" took
I always blame my mother.
She had an interest in science fiction and it isn't a far step into the
realm of the UFO.
I took up UFO research because I wanted to learn the truth for myself.
<Philos> Kevin, Do you detect any effort to
subvert the Roswell research, such as false wittnesses or such? I mean
*** KRandle has quit IRC (Read error to
KRandle[202-154-186.ipt.aol.com]: Connection reset by peer)
<Nesssus> oh dear
<Raine> im sure he will be back :)
<Crow> he was doing great so far too
<Crow> #ufo2 open for unmoderated disscussion
<Crow> we will give him a few mins to redial
he may well be back any sec
*** KRandle (Crows_www@203-55-85.ipt.aol.com)
has joined #ufo
*** Raine sets mode: +o KRandle
<Crow> welcome back Kevin
<Raine> welcome back Kevin :)
<KRandle> Hey folks. I was AOLed. That means
they logged me off.
<Benat2> re kev
<Philos> Kevin, Do you detect any effort to
subvert the Roswell research, such as false wittnesses or such? I mean
Ah, that was the question. No. I see people jumping on the bandwagon for
or to make some money. The government attempts are their silly final
reports. I mean, they did a final report and then did a second final
<buck7> Welcome Kevin. I wonder if you have
any further information regarding the Shag Harbor incident.
Chris Styles and Don Ledger have been doing a wonderful job with that.
When someone asked earlier about good UFO crash cases, I should have put
that at the top of the list.
I know that they are continuing their work and have found some good
<Snakker> What do you think Sheridan Cavitt's
motivation is for not telling the truth about his experiences with Jesse
Marcel in the Roswell incident?
His government oath to keep the secret.
I think that we have a lot of people who are honorable and who were told
not to talk. They just don't because they said they wouldn't. KR
<stu7> Kevin ...whats the best piece of
physical (if any) evidence from Roswell, or any case, youve seen ?
That's a tough one.
I think that some of the photo cases, when couple to other evidence
makes a persuasive case. McMinnville, Oregon in 1950, for example. KR
<Dave_UFO> What role do you feel NASA plays
in all of this? On the one hand they appear to be saying "yes" life does
exist elsewhere possibly i.e. the Mars meteorite and lets not forget
their willingness to
<Raine> rephotograph Cydonia, 'the face on
I think NASA is trying to avoid the problems the AF faces with Project
I think that NASA is working hard to keep their budget intact. And they
do respond to public pressure as you noted.
As for a role, I think the exploration of space will answer our
questions if we don't get them answered down here. KR
<pathfindr> have you ever spoken with any
astronauts in regards to the rumors of ufo sightings?
No. I heard the same stories and seen them, in public forums acknowledge
some of it.
<Snakker> Kevin, you were a helicopter pilot.
Do you think that the so-called (silent) black helicopters are advanced
military, or some alien thing, or a combination of both?
<Nesssus> Kevin do you believe that alien
technology/ufo's are kept at Area51?
That is the simple answer. I think the next level of military technology
is being developed there
which is a good reason for the secrecy. We don't want our competitors in
the world to know everything we're doing. KR
<Dave_UFO> Black Budgets. We know the U.S.
government has a black budget. Has a black budget list ever been
released or obtained?
Some of the really old stuff has been learned. The Manhattan Project,
The problem is that they are black budgets... some what 30-40 Billion
dollars a year. You can
cause a lot of trouble with that kind of money. KR
<Snakker> What is the best strategy to force
the smoking gun UFO evidence out of our government/military
Be scientific in our approach to the questions. Let go of the cases
where the evidence is against us. Mantell, for example,
was killed chasing a balloon. The evidence for that is overwhelming.
Let's stop suggesting that a death ray got him. That harms us. KR
<buck7> Kevin, what is your take on the
Mexico City video? Having just seen it myself for the first time along
with some witness testimony, it looked compellingly real, if not a very
excellent technical hoax.
One of the segments I saw, with a flight of helicopters looked faked to
me. You have an
unknown object flash in front of your craft and there is no reaction, by
any of the pilots. That bothered me.
Someone should have reacted, unless the object was added to the video
<pathfindr> Some "abductees" report a mission
they are to perform at some future time. Is this a common trait or
Many abductees have made mention of that. Some of the contactees said
the same thing. KR
<Dave_UFO> I work with a lot of people who
are only too willing to point out to me newspaper & magazine articles
etc. However I know some still smile unbelievingly. How have you
approached people with your beliefs?
I try to make sure that they understand that the physical evidence, in
every form, that is demanded by
science already exists. When Carl Sagan demand, "Where is the evidence?"
My question to him would be
tell me what you want and I'll tell you where it is.KR
<Philos> Kevin, would you care to venture an
opinion as to the nature of the visitors? Ets ? Other-dimensional
beings? Spirits? Time-travellers?
I believe that some UFO sightings represent extraterrestrial visitation.
<Crow> Kevin how did you react when you heard
the announcment of the Roswell crash dummies?
LOL. Great deals of laughter. Hell, it wasn't even in the right time
<I-Knight> Kevin, do you believe any part of
what Bob Lazar says about his work at Area 51? Stanton Friedman says he
is a fraud but Bob Oeshler says he is genuine!
Boy, caught me in a bad one here. I have to side with Stan on this one.
I talked to a man who worked with Lazar at Los Alamos. Said he was a
technician and not a scientist. KR
<buck7> Kevin, I was referring to the saucer
shaped craft which flew behind an apartment complex and then emerged.
Back to Mexico.
I guess I would have to take a long look at the Mexico. I was merely
suggesting that some of the video needs to be reveiwed carefully. KR
<Snakker> Do you know of any underground
facility research besides that of Richard Sauder? We hear a lot of rumor
about extensive underground facilities. Have you personally been in any
(extensive) underground facilities in your military career?
I was in a missile silo once. I was in Carlsbad Caverns twice. Yes,
there are underground